Interview with Ron Man, Professor of Theology of Worship

– Dear brother Ron, you are known throughout Europe for your expertise in the area of theology and practice of worship. Tell us a little bit about yourself, your family, your educational and ministerial experience.

– I studied music in the university with the goal of becoming an opera conductor. I came to Christ near the end of those studies. The Lord changed the direction of my life, and I attended Dallas Theological Seminary. I served a church in Vienna for 5 years as Associate Pastor after that. Then, upon returning to the U.S., I assumed a full-time position as Pastor of Worship and Music in a large church in Memphis, Tennessee. I still did not know much about worship, but the Lord taught me and the congregation together, and worship became a very important part of that church’s life. About five years ago the church sent me out to teach in different parts of Europe the things God had taught us about worship. I have been married for 30 years, and my wife Betsy and I have three children: one daughter is 28, works for a church full-time and attends seminary part-time; our other daughter has just begun university; and our son is in his last year of high school. My wife and I did grow up in Christian families, so it has been a real privilege and joy for us to be able to give that to our own children; and they all know the Lord and love him.

– If you were asked to point at three main truths about worship in the Christian church, what would they be?

– I consider three of the most pivotal truths about worship to be: Worship is for God, not for our own pleasure or fulfillment. Worship is a response to God and his glory. God always acts first to reveal himself and to redeem; our worship is simply a response to what He has does in us and for us. Worship is the ultimate goal of all life and ministry; God created us and redeemed us to be worshipers for his glory.

– What are some of the contemporary misconceptions about worship in the churches today?

– That worship is for me; that the songs I like most are what we should sing, that the most important thing is that I leave feeling good. This is a selfish attitude; in reality, worship is primarily for God, and secondarily my concern should be for the body as a whole. That the most important thing is to find the right form or style for our worship; in reality, God is much more concerned about the heart of the worshipers. That the way our church does worship is the only way which God finds acceptable. In reality, the New Testament seems to allow for many different expressions of worship, and see that around the world today and also down through the centuries of the church. That the choir or other worship leaders are the most important musical groups in the church. In reality, the congregation is the most important music group: the whole people of God raising their voices together in praise to God.

– Is it possible to bridge the gap between worshippers of different age groups in a contemporary church setting? Is worship a matter of preference and style? What are some of the common things that can bind worshippers together in spite of differences in the style of music?

– I believe that believers of different age groups can worship together effectively. In fact, in our church in Memphis we have practiced this for many years. Some important unifying principles are:

• The people must be taught about biblical principles of worship which transcend questions of preference or style; that is, unifying principles which go deeper than forms or types of music.
• The people must be taught that the unity of the body is more important than having all their own musical tastes satisfied, and that grace should be extended to other believers with differing musical preferences.
• Certain groups can have “their” type of music more fully in youth groups and other gatherings; but in the worship service there is a common commitment to worshiping together, and making concessions to make this possible.
• All groups should seek to learn tolerance for another’s music, and no one group’s music should be favored over another’s. Extremes of those various styles should be avoided as well.
• An attempt should be made to “bridge the gap” by doing, for example, traditional hymns in more contemporary settings, or contemporary songs in subdued ways.

– How do aspects of praise and worship and mission relate to teach other in the life of the church? We know that on one hand the church should be a God-centered worshipping community, yet, on the other hand, people-centered community of love and grace. How does worship influence our evangelistic activities.

– To begin with, we should realize that the ultimate purpose of mission is to win more worshipers for God! Worship is the highest calling of the believer, and the ultimate purpose for which we were created and redeemed; the Great Commandment tells us that. But the Second Greatest Commandment tells us that we should have God’s heart for other people as well. Both commandments belong together! And the Great Commission is a means towards fulfilling the two Greatest Commandments! I believe that our most powerful witness as a church is when unbelievers (whom we invite into our midst warmly) see the people of God praising him and thanking him with all of their hearts; then they will see what a great God it is whom we invite them into a relationship with!

– Let us talk a little bit about music styles. Churches in the former Soviet Union today are dealing with the dilemma of whether to stick with more traditional hymns, which are printed in the hymnals and became a part of the church tradition, or maybe go with more contemporary praise and worship songs, which were translated from the English language. What is your point of view concerning changes in the forms of worship?

– I think we should always be evaluating and adjusting our worship practices. There is no one right way to do it. But change should be undertaken very, very gradually, with a commitment to not making one group feel left out or disenfranchised. The unity of the body is precious to the Lord, and much more important than what style of music we use! We must also explain to the people why we are doing what we are doing, not just what we are doing. We must explain what is biblical, and therefore must not be changed; and what is tradition, and therefore may be changed. We must teach people the difference, and how to identify that difference. I also personally think that the old and the new should be mixed in new and fresh ways. And I believe that we should encourage the musically talented people in our churches to write new songs for worship, with a style and flavor which fits our church and our culture. Some English-language songs may be used, but how much better to have new expressions of worship from your own people! Many in your midst write poems; why not set them to music?

– Which music, do you think, can be used in a church setting and which cannot be used? Do you think that it is legitimate to use such terms as Christian music and worldly music? Are there any general criteria for the selection of music for worship? What should a worship leader pay particular attention to?

– Music is of course a very subjective issue, and so we should be very careful about thinking that we know what is acceptable to God and what is not! At the same time, Christians in every culture must be aware of the power that music has, and be careful about the associations which certain types of music may have in that culture. In Africa, Christians will avoid music with connotations related to pagan practices or ancestor worship; in Moldova, it may have to do with music which is associated with certain immoral lyrics, or films, etc. The most important criterion for selecting songs is the text. The text (lyrics) must accurately reflect biblical truth, be balanced and spiritually edifying. If these things are not true, it does not matter how good the music is! Musically, we should look for songs which are well written and interesting musically; which have a style and range which make them easily learned and sung by the untrained singers of the congregation; and which have music which is compatible with what the lyrics are expressing.

– What are some distinct aspects about worship preferences of today’s high school and college students? What does worship mean to them? How is the meaning of worship for them different from the one for their parents?

– I think that young people are growing up in a time when much more attention is being given to worship, and that is good. And of course most of them are more favorable toward contemporary styles of worship music. They also tend to seek some sort of heart-warming, pulse-quickening “experience” of worship. Our hearts as well as our minds must be engaged in worship, to be sure; but we must remember that worship is first and foremost a gift we come to offer to God. The object is not just to have a fun time, singing songs we like with friends; there’s nothing wrong with that, but it’s not necessarily worship. Older people usually like slower, calmer, more dignified expression of worship; but there is a danger there too of seeking security in familiar forms rather than whole-hearted praise.

Growing in worship does not just mean changing the whole church and the way it does its services, and leaving the older people (who built the church and remained faithful through some extremely difficult times) feeling left out. As one person said, “renewing our worship does not mean just singing everything faster and louder!” Nor does it mean changing all the music. There are ways to revitalize our worship in ways which include people rather than excluding them.

Young people need to realize that they have much to learn from the maturity and experience of older believers, and need to honor them; and older people must realize that they need the freshness and vitality of young people, and that God is at work in the new generation (with its new expressions of worship) as well. Younger and older people need to learn, not only to tolerate and silently listen to each other’s music when done in church, but to try to learn it and participate as well.

– What have you noticed about patterns of worship during your three visits to Moldova and to the College of Theology and Education? How would you characterize worship patterns in Baptist churches in the former Soviet Union?

I have found a great musical tradition (especially choral) in the churches of the former Soviet Union. And I like that many people contribute to the services: singing in choirs, singing solos, reciting poems, preaching. I believe that change is healthy, but that it needs to happen very, very slowly.

I think that your churches should encourage congregational singing by having more of it than choir singing. As I used to tell the church choir I directed, the most important function of the choir is to help the congregation sing better! And it is true that people will remember more the truth they sing than what they hear preached. Again, I would encourage talented musicians to compose new songs for your churches. And I recommend more use of Scripture in creative ways in your services.

Interview was conducted by Oleg Turlac.